S3M7 - MoF Mini: Fitness + Fatness - Transcript

Released November 18th, 2020. For complete episode info, visit this page!

Saraya Boghani: Welcome to a Matter of Fat Mini!

Cat Polivoda: Just a little bit of a regular episode of Matter of Fat.

SB: As you may know, Matter of Fat is a body-positive podcast with midwest sensibilities. 

CP: We use a lot of different words, phrases, or concepts on the pod that may be unfamiliar, or could use a deeper dive for understanding. We’re using this Matter of Fat mini to get into fitness and fatness.

SB: But who are we other than the fabulous co-hosts of Matter of Fat?

CP: I’m Cat Polivoda, a local fat feminist + shop owner.

SB: And I’m Saraya Boghani, a fat, multiracial Minneapolitan millennial. 

CP: And we’re here to dive into—

CP+SB:—Fitness and Fatness!

[TRANSITION MUSIC]

SB: Other than its alliterative allure, there’s a good reason we’re dedicating this minisode to fitness and fatness! There’s still this pervasive belief that fitness and fatness don’t go together, that fat people don’t or can’t work out or that folks in larger bodies don’t belong in fitness spaces. 

CP: This is due, in large part, to our society’s assumption that health and weight are one and the same. Which, we know they’re not! I mean, you can’t tell someone’s health by looking at them. 

SB: This seems like an obvious but important statement: There are lots of fat people who are healthy, there are plenty of non-fat folks who aren’t healthy, and vice versa. 

CP: Right! Weight really isn’t a great measure of health. While people often use “getting healthy” to mean the same thing as losing weight, they are often not the same! As we’ve discussed in previous mini and full episodes, weight loss is rarely sustainable. Studies show 95% of people who lose weight will gain back within 5 years. And, the choices folks can make to lose weight and try to sustain that weight loss are often unhealthy; you know, like consuming far less calories than they need, exercising in excess, putting other areas of health—like mental health—at risk, or even taking drugs. Plus, studies show that cyclical weight loss and regain—y’know, “yo-yo dieting”—is really bad for your heart. So, no, intentional weight loss pursuits are not the same as “getting healthy”. 

SB: We as people are complex, so it’s a disservice to everyone to reduce health to one-size-fits-all term. We also know how ridiculous a one-size-fits-all concept is, so let’s think about this a little bit more thoughtfully. A helpful way to do that is considering examples. So as we were preparing for this episode, Cat, you actually brought up a really good example. 

CP: Oh, yeah! Ok so, one example of misconstruing “getting healthy” with losing weight that always strikes me is about, like, habits and behaviors. Specifically the habits and behaviors that are applauded when fat people are intentionally trying to lose weight, those very same habits and behaviors would often be cause for concern or warning signs for eating disorders in someone who’s not fat! 

SB: And it’s really important to know that people of all sizes experience disordered eating. And people of all sizes can pursue health in more sustainable ways, if that want.

CP: Yeah! IF that’s something they want to pursue, right? Which, by the way, they don’t have to because health is not a moral obligation or a prerequisite for being a respected human in the world, y’know? But, if folks do want to focus on health, there are some healthy habits that are statistically shown to improve health outcomes. So these include things like not smoking, drinking in moderation, eating enough fruits and veggies, and moving your body.

SB: Ooo, these align with the HAES principles! Would you mind telling the people about HAES?

CP: Yes! Ok so HAES, which we have talked about in previous episodes, stands for “Health at Every Size” and it’s one way to approach health that’s not rooted in weight loss. It was developed by Dr. Lindo Bacon. Dr. Bacon’s research demonstrates that when people follow programs where their bodies are respected, their confidence is boosted, and focus is placed on things that folks can do that are actually proven to increase their health—y’know, those things we mentioned, like moving bodies, eating enough veggies, not smoking, etc—then, their health outcomes increase, and are sustained!

SB:  Unlike every weight loss program basically ever. 

CP: Exactly!

SB: So there are 5 principles that guide HAES and one of them is life-enhancing movement---or, as some refer to it, joyful movement! It’s fitness y’all!  We made our way to the minisode topic, it’s fitness. 

CP: We did it! We’re here. We also need to acknowledge that it can be difficult to embrace movement and activity from a space of joy, and not shame or desire for weight loss, because our culture has done such a great job on conflating health and weight. And because of that, basically it’s left a whole part of the population out of fitness culture completely. 

SB: Mmm. It’s always been interesting, like in the most Midwestern sense of the word, to me about how fat people are and aren’t seen in fitness culture. 

CP: Ooh yeah, say more about that!

SB: Ok, stick with me on this, because first, I think we should have a brief history lesson on fitness culture from our friends at Wikipedia--I know it’s kind of a bold choice to use Wikipedia for this, but it was surprisingly transparent, to me, on the sociological evolution of fitness culture.  We’re, *ahem*, referencing other sources than Wikipedia for this minisode which are shared in our shownotes. 

So, the origins of fitness culture can be linked to how WWII totalitarian regimes promoted their ideologies. The subtext in that quick-hitter of a fact is that Nazi Germany held physical fitness as a core part of their overall philosophy. The Soviet Union had a similar propensity for public programming geared towards fitness to support homeland defense. 

CP: Ooo, okay I like that you’re not easing us into this at all!

SB: Listen, I was just as surprised as you to see that right there on the wiki page!

CP: SO bold.

SB: I know. It’s also important to note that even though we’re referencing this, we are NOT saying that all fitness is racist, homophobic, or ableist. What we are saying is that the most prolific version of fitness culture has roots in Aryan superiority. 

CP: Ooo, I mean, very cool, very casual, not scary at all. 

SB:  It came out of very not cool, very not casual and very scary beginnings. Fitness in the U.S. became more pervasive during the Cold War. As I shared earlier, the Soviet Union was already prioritizing public fitness as a defensive tactic. Our dear homegrown Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey—

CP: —Oh!  A Minnesota fact, wrapped up in a regular fact! This is great.

SB: It’s fun, right? Ok, Triple H himself warned—(Cat cracks up laughing)

CP: —Is that what people CALL him? 

SB: I mean now, it’s so fetch, I’m a trendsetter. Ok, so Hubert H. Humphrey warned that communist superiority was based on physical and athletic fitness. The Maintenance Phase podcast has an episode on the President’s Physical Fitness Test that brought up a great point related to this. Americans were failing at basic fitness tests compared to European kids while the U.S. was trying to demonstrate it’s national might. So, that’s not great. So my hot take: imbuing the fear of national failure into an American’s ability to do sit ups is a great way to embed moral superiority over those who do not embody physical prowess i.e. fat people. 

Michael and Aubrey reported that the US swerved a bit on the calisthenics style of fitness because it was too much akin to Nazi practices and superiority stratification. So then, I guess my hot take doesn’t really seem all that hot anymore when you consider that they made that distinguished choice to not practice the same things that were being practiced in other parts of the world.

CP: Oof, that’s so interesting! And when you lay it out like that, it really provides an interesting perspective on current day fitness culture, right? Especially considering how commercialization then comes in and it becomes more niche or subculture.  When I say this I guess I’m thinking about like, Equinox, Peleton or other fitness “movements” or groups. I don’t know if fat people are welcomed in those spaces, but I do know that I’ve never seen fat people in their advertising! And obviously there’s like, class factors that play into this too.  

SB:  Mmhm, yeah, this history review is all to say that our society has not built fitness and fatness to go hand in hand however incorrect that is in reality. Human bodies are diverse. Fat people have existed for our forever.  Humans have engaged in fitness for our forever.  Therefore, fat humans have been engaging in fitness for our forever as well.

CP: It’s just like, one of the most vicious cycles.  Y’know, the common critique about fat people is that we need to be more health conscious and, by extension, working out more in gyms and public spaces would be required.  

SB: Yeah, HOWEVER, with a capital H, when fat people are in fitness-centric environments--like gyms, athletic shops, actual races and competitions--we then become the punchline for jokes or even “sources of inspiration” or before-and-after images of people. 

I know I personally have practiced yoga off-and-on for about 15 years. I stopped my membership and going to a gym a few years back for like, a number of reasons.  One of those reasons was that the yoga class that aligned with my schedule was run by a teacher who was absolutely astonished when I could hold a plank position or do downwards facing dog.  

CP: Ugh!

SB: I know, right? She would always walk past me and say things like, “Wow, you’re really doing it!” and “good for you!” (Both laugh and sigh)  She didn’t share this affirmation with anyone else.  I was the only fat person. I don’t know, Causation and correlation I know we don’t wanna like, conflate them, but here we are!

CP:  I mean, insert the confused math lady meme. This doesn’t add up. I don’t know, I cannot speak to the causation and correlation of it all, but I do know it’s a microagression! I mean, ugh, I wish you would get out of here with those microagressions and get into in our previous minisode about them! (Both laugh) Right? It’d be good for her!

SB: Yup, mhmm. This is just one anecdote, right, that corresponds with so many other fat peoples’ experiences engaging in fitness.  The expectation is that fat people should change themselves but when they show up in fitness spaces for whatever reason not necessarily to change themselves, they have to carry a burden beyond the free weights.  

CP: That’s too good.

SB: Too perfect! (Both laugh)

There are just enough barriers for people to add fitness to their everyday practice, so it’s no surprise that additional stigma could keep fat people from engaging in fitness or spaces dedicated to it. 

CP:  And, we gotta think about other barriers to engaging too!  I know a perennial topic for us is fashion, but ultimately we need to consider what clothing is available to plus-size people for engaging with fitness.  Are there comfortable and supportive outfits for triathlons or for roller derby or for kayaking?  I mean, sure, maybe there are some options, but what are the price points? How good is the quality? Is it available in any brick-and-mortar store? And my gosh, like, not to even mention the size range! Are they advertising a “size-inclusive” range but only going to 3XL which, to put it in perspective, is my size. And to further put that in perspective, I’m what we would call, like, a mid-fat. There are people smaller than me, there are people bigger than me, and everybody needs access to clothes.

SB: Yeah, yeah. Brands have always ignored fat people, but this is even more pronounced when it comes to activewear options. We’re hardly ever seen in mainstream ad campaigns, I mean, just think about the Nike mannequin fiasco in 2019.  

Cat I think you brought this to my attention then, please paint us a picture of what transpired.

CP: Ok, so in case you’re not aware, Nike started using plus-size mannequins, and they put one in their flagship London store. There was immense backlash about this mannequin. One Telegraph journalist--who, I mean, clearly has some work to do--said, among other things, that the mannequin was “immense, gargantuan, vast,” and that she “heaves with fat”. I mean, ok, again, like, this mannequin sort of looked like us! 

SB: Oh my God, so ridiculous! First of, put down the thesaurus. Second off, this is a plasticized mannequin with nary a roll to be seen! How is there heaving happening?  I just…I don’t know, that’s beside the point, but this points out the logical fallacy we’re describing. 

This journalist is being incredibly fatphobic and emphasizing that fat people can’t engage in fitness, and even though we demonize them for being fat, we don’t want them to access the clothing that so many other athletes and active people use. This is not an ad for Nike, by the way.

CP: And also, they only go up to 3XL I think, so, y’know, like I said, there are people who wear 4X and up who would like to participate in fitness, thank you!

SB: And would love to purchase clothing not made by child slave labor!

CP: Ok, yeah, so truly clearly definitely not an ad for Nike here. 

SB: I just can’t help but think of all the items that aren’t built for fat people to use easily either. Bicycles, kayaks, even most work out machines on ~Amazon~ are only built for a certain weight.  We’re really not seen out here. The only time I do see fat people moving around in modern media is when their heads are cut off on news B-roll regarding the “obesity epidemic”. 

CP: Right! Not only are we often left out of fitness spaces,  the way fat people are represented generally within fitness—and, I guess, more broadly in the “wellness” industry—is also cause for concern!

SB: Yeah. As I alluded to earlier, this shows up all too often in painting fat people as the “before picture,” in juxtaposition to after photos of like, “amazing” transformations. Sometimes, the language will even go as far as to say that “there’s a thin person inside a fat person’s body just trying to get out!” Which is just a horrific image! Just think about it.  

CP: Ughhh, it’s sooo soo icky!

SB: Just terrifying.

CP: And, just so incredibly messed up. And, ok, no no no, there’s no thin person trapped inside me. I’m just me inside of me. And I’m fat. 

SB: Like, I’m gonna have to listen to that when I edit this, but the fact that you had to say that sentence is just bonkers. Also, it’s not just you, it’s prolific; it’s so prolific that the first episode of season 1 of Shrill lays out that exact experience that so many of us have had to deal with. 

CP: I mean, bless that show for highlighting situations that are so terribly relatable in the fat community and also just like, kinda shocking and awful. 

SB: Mhmm, especially when the stories of fat people that we see on TV are so singular and often weight loss.

CP: Bluuuugh!

SB: For instance, a wildly popular show that has really capitalized on this “before and after” trope while showing fat bodies in the most dehumanizing ways, through transformations that are achieved by “blood, sweat, vomit and tears,” I think Cat, you know what I’m referencing here.

CP: I do, I think we all do, also I feel like I’m bleeding, sweating, vomiting and crying just thinking about it!

SB: Oh, God—(Both laugh)

CP: I think we all know we’re talking about The Biggest Loser, and like, just when we thought it was off the airwaves, it’s actually back for a reboot.

SB: Ugh, it’s such trash! And one of the most well-known examples of this type of messaging. 

CP: Y’know, he way fat people are represented is both bad for fat people—y’know, like co-signing internalized fatphobia when we see fat people being mistreated, lied to, and told they need to lose weight to get access to care, or love, or success—all those kinds of messages are really damaging for us, but I think they’re also really damaging and really bad for people who aren’t fat! Both in terms of how they see their own bodies, but what worries me more is how, when they take in those messages, they might treat fat people differently based on what they’re consuming, like it gives license to let fatphobia run rampant! 

SB: Absolutely accurate. Like, in terms of The Biggest Loser coming back, we’re at a point in time where there is more body positivity in mainstream media than ever before. So, is the reboot a response to that or a co-opting?  Who benefits from this show and what do they gain?  

I imagine it isn’t aligned with HAES principles or general wellness, but is tied up in a bow of wellness and mindfulness a la the weight watchers rebrand.  

CP: Ugh, I hate it.

SB: Yeah, as body positivity becomes more widespread, it’s also more commercialized, which is what you mentioned earlier. So, we do see some plus-size people in activewear ads or a few plus-size yoga instructors highlighted in marketing campaigns.

CP: Yeah, but it’s still the small-fat, “curves in the right places” types of folks, and often white women featured. So, there’s still a strong focus on beauty and size standards that are racist and sexist, but, y’know, with a few curves. 

SB: Dangerous curves, apparently. (Cat laughs) Oh my gosh. The best representation I see of fat individuals engaging in activity is Instagram and their personal accounts! So we’re even seeing folks getting picked up by online digital magazines or write-ups as people to watch!

CP: Yeah, same. I think social media is really where I am able to truly diversify representation in all areas, and fitness and fatness is no exception! Saraya, who are some of your faves to follow? 

SB: Well, I like Jessamyn Stanley and Amber Karnes for a yoga focus.  Also Ani from the Radical Health Alliance. 

CP: Oh, I love them all! And also, I will say, it seems like yoga has been a space for lots of movement toward body positivity, and also, as a practice has a lot of cultural appropriation issues, too. So, like with most things, it’s all very messy. 

Umm, one account that I follow—and, actually, they were a sponsor for us last season—Superfit Hero! They post really good stuff, like a true variety of athletes in so so many  shapes and sizes and identities. And, we’re talking abll about sizing, they just recently adjusted their size chart, so now they’re exclusively serving athletes in larger bodies, and their size range is L - 7XL. Which. Is. Awesome. 

SB: I love their ethos and their IG is popping and it brings me so much joy!

CP: It’s so good.

SB: They’re really doing a great job over there, and I’m really glad that we were able to be sponsored by them for one episode. I also follow Deeva Rose, who we’ve interviewed and mentioned a lot as a friend of the pod and actually, so, this season we’ve been doing a lot of shareouts on our Instagram stories, and so I became aware of @Fat_Girl_has_Moxie, who is a roller skating queen! 

CP: Yesss! You did a round-up of cute rollerskating, that was so good. In terms of folks I would follow on Instagram, I would add Meg Boggs to the list along with some folks that I basically just love to watch dancing around, which I think I shared out in a dancing round-up we did on the story. Um, folks that I specifically like: Dexter Mayfield, Katrina Nichole, and Thais Carla as well as—just because I like to see people dancing around—and I also would mention workout content from Joyn that I’ve enjoyed!

SB: Hmmm, I love this! We’ll link ‘em all in the notes.

CP: There are also some orgs that I’m really into that are focused on this work. They are notably less fun on social media (Saraya laughs) but I do love a good Facebook follow, especially so I can see articles and links that they’ve shared. So these include NAAFA: the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance and ASDAH: The Association for Size Diversity and Health. Also, Dr. Lindo Bacon, who we referenced earlier with Health at Every Size, who also shares a lot on Twitter. And then, of course, the Radical Health Alliance, which is local to the Twin Cities.

SB: When we think about what fat liberated physical activity could look like, it looks like these people! It looks like a sexy stretching class at the Rose Academy of Burlesque. It looks like rad fat biking with Ani and the Radical Health Alliance, when we’re in person again. It looks like Amber Karnes teaching yoga facilitators how to effectively provide accommodations for all bodies. I just—these folks and organizations are helping reframe fitness in a way that allows for people of all sizes who want to or can participate! 

CP: Yes! And people, places, and orgs like the ones we’ve mentioned are helping make fitness fatter and more accessible for those of us in larger bodies! When I think of physical activity in a fat liberation context, I think about a gym where literally no one mentions intentional weight loss. Group fitness classes where instructors do not utter a word about calories burned. Where tummies are out and no one bats an eye. Where success for physical activity is measured by strength, and joy, and fun, and endorphins. I mean, ugh, what I would do for a gym like that!

SB: That sounds like such a great dream. And honestly, if a gym like that could exist, I know our local fat community would be ready for it. In the meantime, you deserve to engage in joyful movement regardless of your size and ability, and we’re here for ya.

CP: Ugh, we are!

[TRANSITION MUSIC FADES IN, FADES OUT]

SB: Hopefully this minisode has helped you consider how great fitness and fatness can go together, beyond alliteration.

CP: And, helped you dream about what fat positive fitness culture could look like!

SB: If you want more, which I know you do, feel free to check out the linked resources in our shownotes.

CP: Yep, you’ll find those at matteroffatpod.com along with other episodes, transcripts, and more! 

SB: And, if you like what we’re doing here, share Matter of Fat with a friend!

CP: We’ll catch you next time for more info, hot takes, and aforementioned alliterations as—

 CP+SB: —a Matter of Fat!

[TRANSITION MUSIC FADES IN, FADES OUT]

-END-