S4E7 - Fat Dish: All the Opinion, Rest Resolutions, + Quarantine 15 - Transcript

Released on July 7th, 2021. For complete episode info, visit this page!

[THEME MUSIC FADES IN AND OUT]

Cat Polivoda: Welcome to Matter of Fat, a body-positive podcast with Midwest sensibilities. Hi, I'm Cat Polivoda, a local fat feminist, shop owner, and, you know, I've interacted with more people in real life in the last month than I have in the last 15 months before--it is very weird and also kind of wonderful. I'm joined by my co-host and producer, Saraya Boghani. 

Saraya Boghani: Hi, I'm Saraya. I'm a fat multiracial Minneapolitan millennial who never gives up even when it comes to social anxiety. Social anxiety is my own personal Rick Astley.

CP: Who is Rick Astley?

SB: (Singingly) Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down. Never gonna turn around and--

CP + SB:: --desert you!

SB: Yes. 

CP: Oh, Saraya. This is like self-deprecating humor maybe, but also that was a really good mention!

SB: Well I like a deep, I like a deep cut and also I'm so embarrassed that I just sang that and it's recorded and I have to edit it and listen to it.  And you have to listen to it right now.

CP: I love that you just sang it and also, I just don't think we know, I mean, we've discussed this, you know names of people like that, but the general public, I don't think does. 

SB: You got Rickrolled, Cat, but you know what else won't give up? Let's just keep it.

CP: What?

SB: These effin’ fireworks. I just want y'all to know you may hear them in the background or you may not, but people love blowing things up out here and seemingly really everywhere this time of year. So, yeah. Yeah. Just be on alert. 

CP: ‘Tis the season. On Matter of Fat, we're here to talk about the cultural politics of fat liberation with a Midwest perspective.

SB: And this is a Fat Dish episode, which means it's just Cat and I chatting about so much. Um, and you can catch another interview episode next time. 

CP: It's us. And this time we are gabbing about what we've been up to, talking about body and self care as we get hopefully closer to kind of exiting, moving toward a pandemic exit and some more Fat Dish, all as a— 

CP + SB: —Matter of Fat.

[THEME MUSIC FADES IN AND OUT]

CP: Okay. It's time for personal dish. Okay, but we have some Matter of Fat-specific things that we've got to share.

SB: Hot off the presses. Yeah. I don't know. There's nothing printed right now.

CP: There is no press!

SB: Some mutual personal dish that's also Matter of Fat related and it was just this dreamy. Thursday, like a full Thursday where I found out that I just have a lot of opinions about things that I didn't think I had opinions about.

CP: I feel like we knew, I mean—
SB: —Okay, choose your words—

CP: I mean, I would describe us--we're both pretty opinionated.

SB: Um, yeah.

CP: So some of you may have seen it. I did a little teaser picture on our socials, but Saraya and I were asked to be part of this, um, fun project our friend Alec is working on, uh, which is like a series of fun reaction videos to Midwest things. Which like, could you think of something more perfect for us sharing our bountiful opinions about Midwest-specific stuff? It was, it was perfect. 

SB: We've been working to this moment for the past three years-slash-our whole lives. So, it was really fun though. It was fun to watch different movies, um, look at different artists, both musical and you know, like painting and other art kind of media. Talk about the Mall of America. Talk about the State Fair. 

CP: Talk about Target!

SB: Talk about Target. I mean, call it a day! What else do you need to do to talk about Minnesota? 

CP: Well you were gonna say, we got to try beers too, and like give our, our, um, our, I don't know, reviews of them. 

SB: Ranking, review and ranking. 

CP: Ranking! 

SB: And Alec showed us some really good ones too. Local, local breweries, local brews. It was quite interesting.

CP: It was so, so, so much fun. Um, and I think it's going to come out like within a month or so, but we will, of course, be sharing when it does. I imagine there might be some kind of like longer videos then also some short snippets. And so we'll be really excited to share those with y’all when they come out.

SB: Yeah, but that was so much fun. It was the first day--so like, obviously Cat is out at her shop on a regular basis, but that was the first day where I was away from my home space other than like with family for an extended amount of time. So that was a nice reintroduction to the world. 

CP: Yeah, we did it, it was, uh, it was, uh, it was like several hours of filming and then we had tacos after! So you like, you were out of the house, like eight hours or something.

SB: It was like, it was like real life again. Yeah. We went to Centro and it was so nice. The patio there is quite good. We are not getting paid for this, although I would not be opposed to being paid in tacos. 

CP: I would be very open, very open to that. Fat Cash, but like taco style? Oh, I'm into it. 

SB: Sounds delightful. What was fun too is—okay. So Cat and I had our first like outside patio moments that once it was safe, once we were both vaxxed and then, uh, we ran into a friend from New Leaders Council when we did that a month ago or so. 

CP: Oh yeah, when we ran into Ash!

SB: And then this time we ran into Sarah, who's another NLC friend. So that was really nice too. 

CP: Yeah. It's just like, to be in the world, run into people? So fun. Cause I know, Saraya, your work with the board this year, It's just all been virtual the whole year, so it's probably especially fun to run into people that you've been like working with closely, but not closely in person.

SB: It feels bizarre, like to see them up in person and be like, oh my god, there's so much dimension in your face. It's not 2d anymore. Um, for everybody who's like, what are these ladies talking about? So NLC is New Leaders Council, um, which, like, hosts a leadership Institute for six months. And I was a fellow in 2020, and Cat introduced me to NLC. 

CP: Yeah. And we've talked about it before in the pod, but if you have not caught that before, thanks for popping in with the info. ‘Cause I mean, the people are going to want to know. 

SB: Also like no lie, every time you had talked about it before I actually knew what it was, I just had no idea why, like the NLC, like I was like, it stands for something, stands for New Leaders Council. It's a leadership Institute and I was on the board, um, that for this year. And it just wrapped up, our last meeting for this year's board wrapped up the other day. And that feels a little bittersweet, but also really fun to see all the work we did, even though it was a hundred percent virtual. 

CP: Yeah. 

SB: That's pretty cool. 

CP: That is cool. What else? What else is new? 

SB: Just catching up with friends.

CP: Yeah.

SB: Friends who are visiting from out of town, friends who are moving soon. Going to someone's house and like meeting a bunch of new people, um, sounds like really, that would have been very anxiety inducing to Saraya back in the day, but, um, was really fun this time around. I was like very into it, ‘cause it has a novelty to it.

Um, so that's fun. And yet, and yet the event that I was really excited to attend with people that I knew would be there. I just, that anxiety crept up real hard and was like, are you sure? And I was like, yes, I am sure! I waited months to be with people to go places, to go do things. And it's like, “Hey, are you sure though?”

And it's like, “No, I'm not sure. I'll just stay in my house and chill out for a little bit.” So, I'll just say that this re-introduction thing is really hard. And I’ve talked with a few other friends about it, but like, we're lucky enough to be at a position to feel comfortable going to hang out with people. Um, I, it feels a little tenuous to me with all these variants running around, but, um, yeah, for now I think it's just tricky and there's no, oh my god. Do I say it? Precedent--

CP: It's unprecedented. 

SB: It is unprecedented to figure out how to reintegrate after so much time away. So I think I'm just navigating that and feeling good about that in the midst of a Minnesota summer.

CP: So I think that's totally normal. And actually, so for me, my shop is open and so I'm seeing just like lots of people, which is really wild and wonderful. Um, but also it's my, like, because I, uh, a shop, our main business is on weekends and actually with our summer hours for Cake, um, we're just open to the public on Fridays and Saturdays.

But within that schedule, me being back on the floor, working all the time that we're open means that like I have a guaranteed, I can't do anything on Friday or Saturday besides work. So I don't, yeah. I think that that's helping me to be honest. Like there's just less stuff that I'm feeling like I need to do it.

It's my, you know, I've had to become really good at saying no to things. And I kind of, from the beginning of the shop opening, especially for weekend stuff, but yeah, it's like now I'm back in real life, but also like my standard excuses is there too, which is, um, weird in some ways, but also kind of nice in other ways to be honest, yeah.

Yeah, but can I tell you like, it is so fun to see people? I mean, new faces to the shop, old faces that have just been regular the whole time. Oh my gosh. Saraya, there--okay. So we've been open four weeks, four weekends. We've been open. So weekend three, there were two people not together that had come in every single weekend.

I mean, like there's been a multiple repeats already, but two folks who would come every single weekend. And then this past weekend, one of them came back and she came kind of later in the day on Saturday, we were only open for a couple of hours longer. And as she left, she was like, did that other person come in or do I get the record? I was like, “Well, they have three hours, but they did not come in. So Heidi gets the record. 

SB: I love that so much. That's very cute. 

CP: So there's just been so much fun in seeing people. Um, and I just feel so lucky to get, to see people. Yeah. Like that person who has been in four times in the last month, like it's incredible. Um, so yeah, that's been really, really fun.

SB: Oh, I, and I think too, I don't know their motivations for coming every, every single time, every weekend you've been open, but, uh, we were talking about this when we were at Centro, too.

It's just, clothing, which I know fashion and clothing is obviously a central point of conversation for us. But you know, for me, I didn't feel like I could go to a place and just have a variety of options that were within a budget, or like a budget I felt comfortable spending on clothes, until Cake. I just think, you know, that has been sorely missed for a lot of people. And so I can't imagine the joy and like normalcy and, um, I don't know, sense of—I can't even find the right words for it that, because it is unprecedented, but like just being able to get back to that shop, yeah. And to have that, that experience that I know you do a good job of curating. Um, but like good for them. Good for them. I haven't come by yet once, so I, bad for me. 

CP: That’s okay. I'm there every Friday, Saturday. (CP + SB laugh)

SB: I'm scared to impose on you during a long business day.

CP: But that's all, but that's all really kind of you to say. And I agree, I think that people are just really eager to kind of get back to normal, um, in ways. And, you know, it's still, like, not totally normal. We're wearing masks, there's a line outside. I got a capacity maximum. You know, it's not like, totally back to normal. Um, but it feels good enough where I think everyone's very, very into that.

And also we just like had a lot of really good things come in and out of the shop, lots of awesome inventory coming through. And so people are you know, excited to shop that. And also like, I don't know, people's bodies are changing and I think we have a little more to say about that as we get a little further on, but before we do, we should talk about more personal things. Saraya, I know you got a hair cut. 

SB: (Snorts) I really just snorted at you saying that I got it here too. Big personal development. 

CP: Yeah, but I mean, when you have long hair, like you, you don't get your hair cut every day. You get it cut every like several, several months, right?

SB: Yeah. That's true. And I love my stylist. Carly is the best, shout out Stellar Hair. Again, they're not paying us in haircuts or bang trims. Also, those are free, but I don't, I haven't really had bangs before, so that's a fun development. I have bangs, but I don't have bangs. They're like tiered and Iike, swooped.

CP: They’re a little swooped. They’re good. They're real good. 

SB: Yeah, she just does a great job. I love Carly. And, uh, it is, it's just like, okay, what we were talking about with your shop, like getting into a position where you can go to the salon and just have like the wildest, but most fun and like, enjoyable conversation with your stylist. It's like, that's what I miss. Like that is great.

And they're doing a really good job of like still being pretty COVID aware. So everybody's still masked up and you shouldn't bring things in, you can't go into the salon until it's time for you to go in and, um, I think I like that, actually. I like it, it isn't the exact same, like I can't get a LaCroix, right, which also was a hallmark moment. Um, but I'm okay with it because they're considering the safety of everybody. And I really dig that even more than sparkling water apparently, but yeah. Um, new hair who dis?

CP: It’s you!

SB: It's me, it’s Saraya, and I was able to style it for our video too. 

CP: Yes, you did!

SB: Which I was pretty impressed with it. So I am a low maintenance kind of gal. So, that was fun.

CP: Yeah. Oh, that's so great. Um, can I do a quick media check and share some things that I've been reading?

SB: Oh, yeah.

CP: Uh, okay. So I read this—remember I like, texted you the other day and was like, “Who's Casey Wilson?” I didn't know who this person was, but I got, um, her memoir from like my Libro.fm, like early listen, kind of, I get some freebie audiobooks every month.

SB: You’re an influencer. 

CP: I lowkey am, okay. 

SB: You're a book influencer and a Snack Pack influencer.

CP: I mean, I do what I can. 

SB: Not, jello, not the pudding. 

CP: Um, but I read her memoir called The Wreckage of my Presence. And I was so surprised that I liked it so much, especially because I think one of the most fun things for me with memoirs is that when I read them of folks that I'm familiar with, they talk about TV shows that they're on,  or podcasts they have, or things that they do.

And it's like, if I'm consuming those things, I love to hear about them. Um, but for her, she was mentioning all these things that like, I mean, I'd heard of the show Happy Endings, never seen it. I heard of the podcast, Bitch Sesh never listened to it. And so it was like, I don't know. I was just so surprised how much I enjoyed it, but I thought it was really, really good.

So there was like, a little, you know, dieting and body size, um, were a theme throughout and related to her relationship with her mother. And I thought there were a few moments.I was like, “Oh, I don't like this.” But for the most part, I thought she handled it really, really well. Um, yeah. So it was, so with that kind of content warning in mind, I would definitely recommend.

And, and then, uh, for a long, a bit here, I've been kind of off my romance novel train. I've been just kind of watching lots of TV—ahem, Criminal Minds—but I got back in the, in the romance audio book mood, and the best one I listened to recently is called The Roommate, um, by Rosie—oh, I can't think of Rosie's last name, but The Roommate, um--

SB: O’Donnell?

CP: O’Donnell? No, I don't think she writes romance?

SB: Absolutely not. 

CP: Um, and I actually went out of order accidentally and listened to the first one—or, the second one first, which I thought was pretty good, but the first one was really good. Um, and it was fun because I've mentioned that Paxyshia who I work with, we both read a lot—well she like read-reads and I listen to audiobooks—and we chat about what we read.

But this time, like we both read this book really close to each other. Like she just finished it and then I started it. And so it was really fun to have someone to share play by plays with like, “I'm 52% in; they’re on the couch talking about this; what's going to happen?” You know, it's just like so fun. Oh, my god, it was just great.

SB: Okay. So you are an influencer, both for the Libra.fm crew and for myself of getting me to listen to books that I wouldn't listen to otherwise. And I did start one and got pretty far and it's Get a Life, Chloe Brown, which I know you know.

CP: Yes, yes! 

SB: I know you recommended it a long time ago, but I finally got it through Libby! Libby finally came through because it's a popular book. It's a popular listen. So I started, it's quite good so far, I enjoy it quite a bit.

CP: Um, are you listening to it? Yeah.

SB: I am listening to it.

CP: I hate to put this idea in your head if it's not there already, but I didn't love the narrator for that book. It really like, took me awhile to get into it, um, cause of the narrator. The, um, there's three books in that series and the narrator is the same one for the second two and it changes from the first. So I think that I was not the only person who. I feel like that's kind of mismatched. I'm so glad that you like that.

SB: I hate when that happens. I can't stand it when a series changes narrators like, I'm like, just stick with it. If you're gonna do it, just stick with it. ‘Cause I get so used to it. But that’s ok.

CP: Yeah. Normally I feel the same, but in this instance, because I so actively disliked the narrator, I wasn't really happy there was someone different. Um, but that is like, I don't know. I thought that that book had a lot of like, nice steaminess in it and really, really enjoyed it. So I'm glad you're listening to it.

SB: Oh, it hasn't gotten steam yet. Yeah. I'm really just at the beginning.

CP: Oh, it will. Buckle up my friend. 

SB: Okay. But you mentioned Criminal Minds. Oh, so, oh, before I forget—Casey Wilson. Yeah. I think it's interesting, what came up about body image and stuff like that, because she kind of regularly is defaulted to being the fat friend, especially in Happy Endings. I do not think you will like how she's portrayed, but you should watch it and let me know, also it's a little bit dated. Like, I don't think it plays as well as it did when it first came out. 

CP: Yeah. 

SB: It's also kind of interesting the synchronicity of us talking about this because when we talked about, um, in a previous Podluck, uh, about Sierra Teller Ornelas, um, she wrote for Happy Endings.

CP: I remember that. And actually, so like, it's so funny, like that was like a tick in the like, gotta watch this column. And then now listening to this it’s like, “Okay, really have to watch it now.”

SB: Yeah. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts for sure. I've watched it also so long ago and it's just got a cult following of people who like comedy and sitcoms and all that stuff. So, yeah. But, okay. Um, as far as television goes, Criminal Minds, I've had to swerve off of it a little bit and I come back and it's just like, ridiculous.

CP: Saraya, it gets weird. It gets weird. 

SB: It’s so weird. 

CP: It's weird. 

SB: It’s so bizarre. And I think every show that goes for any number of seasons has to. It already started out as weird. And now it's just bonkers. Like every episode I watch, I'm like what now? 

CP: I know. I think, I think it just went way too long. You got to quit while it's still fun and not, so weird.

SB: Then why are you still watching it?

CP: Oh, well, I'm, I'm gonna finish that series. Like I am this deep in, I am gonna finish it actually, Saraya, I've been googling like, did the writing change after season 11? Like what, like, why does it get weirder? 

SB: Oh, I'm on season 11 right now. 

CP: I thought 11 was great. It was so full of suspense. Like the series finale—or the, excuse me, the season finale of 10, going into 11. 11 is when Derek Morgan leaves, all the stuff with Hotch happens. Oh my god! It was just, so I thought it was so good.

And then like, 12 is like still good, but real weird. And then after that, it's just like—but I think part of it is that so many of the main characters that we've grown accustomed to aren't part of the cast and it just feels different. And as each one leaves, it just feels more and more funny. 

SB: It's just buck wild. It is like, if this was any other organization, all of these people would be pulled apart and the unit would be disbanded for like, the wildness of it. I just, I cannot. And I think that's why I had to like, start watching some other things. I will come back to it. I am invested I'm this far into it. Um, but I just needed a little bit of a palate cleanser and I've been watching a lot of things as a palate cleanser actually. Um, and you have too! Like, I caught up on the new season of Dave, which is also so bizarre, so weird.

CP: I just finished the fourth episode today. Have you seen that episode?

SB: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar?

CP: So it's just. Yes, that's the episode. Every episode is just, there's so many cringe-worthy moments, but I guess it's like on purpose, right?

SB: I think, I think, okay. I haven't seen, um, oh, it's a new movie. Is it just Zola? Is that what it's called? 

CP: I've heard of it, but I don't know of it. I don't know about it. 

SB: I'm so excited to watch it. Um, I won't get into it, but there was, uh, an interview with Sam Sanders and Riley Keough. I don't know, I don't know how to say her last name. She's an actress. Anyways, just talking about how, like it's okay to have protagonists that are not, uh, sympathetic. And I think if that is truly what is coming to play in the show, Dave, which stars, uh, Dave Bird, aka Little Dicky, who’s a real rapper. He’s just the worst.

CP: Yeah, he's really bad, and most people on that show I think are bad, but I think Gata is like the only, and maybe the girlfriend? No, the side characters are, but like--

SB: They’re all bad.

CP: I just, Dave is the worst. 

SB: They're all human

CP: They’re incredibly human. 

SB: Which is why keep watching it. And also the, um, like how close it is to Hollywood-slash-the music industry is kind of interesting. It's also created by all these music industry folks. So I'm like, how much of this is just like an elaborate joke on yourself? Versus how much of this is reality? Um, I just do not know, and it's quite interesting. 

CP: And I think one of the things that keeps us both watching as well, is that there is like some really good commentary on, like, identity and social issues. Like there's just, there's a, it feels like every episode, there's like a couple little things where it's like, thank you for saying that. That's very smart. I'm glad we're thinking about this. In addition to just cringe--

SB: There were a lot of moments that are just, that was very not smart. That was the antithesis of smart. And I feel like, uh, I wish I had those moments of my life back.

CP: Oh man. 

SB: And yet, here we are. I think season one was beautiful, right? And like season two. You just, I, I, it's hard, it's hard. I'm going to keep watching, but it's uncomfortable because of who his character is and the decisions that he makes. 

CP: Yeah. I, I agree. Will watch and also, very uncomfortable. Yep. 

SB: So I guess not that much different than Criminal Minds.

CP: Well it’s like uncomfortable in a different way, if you will.

SB: Yeah. 

CP: Um, um, you don't watch this show, but The Bold Type is the show from Freeform that I've always just loved so much. And that's the final season. And I watched this morning, the series finale of it. And I would just like to give a little shout out to anybody else who watches that show because it's just, it's not perfect, but it's really good, and I, I liked how things wrapped up.

It's like, you know, with series finales. You're like, “Oh, I don't know…” But I thought that there was like a, I mean, it was mostly predictable, but a few little plot. And I thought it was just, just so, so great.

SB: That sounds delightful.

CP: You’ve never watched it, have you?

SB:  I tried--

CP: It's okay. It's, I mean-

SB: Which is weird, cause I love glitz and glam. Like, let me tell you every time Instagram gives me an ad for the new Gossip Girl, I get really psyched. 

CP: Yeah, you love Gossip Girl!

SB: Don't say it so loudly. Yeah. I watched the whole series, uh, when it came out, and I recently did a rewatch and by that, I mean, like in the last year, um, but like I'm interested to see what they do with this new one. But HBO has been where it's at for me, I watched all of Hacks, which is very, very good, very, very funny, um--

CP: Did you watch the one with our guy from three weddings or Four Weddings and--

SB: Starstruck, baby! That's like so well done. It's very good, Starstruck, um, is amazing. It's a little British short run series, uh, where this very famous actor and this girl like, hooks up with this very famous actor, does not realize it's him. And it's kind of like an ill-fated story of them getting together-slash-not getting together.

It's just really well done. It's just very well done. Lighthearted. Funny, um, Rose Mattafeo, I’m probably getting her name wrong. I'm sorry, but she is the comedian who I believe is a New Zealander,  who is just brilliant. So that's a great show. Another show I’ve been watching on HBOMax that I just started watching is called Full Bloom and it is, um, a competition a la Great British Baking Show, takes place in the US and it's with, uh, floral artists, or florists.

CP: Oh, how cool. 

SB: Very cool. I love it so much. I'm very into it. Um, cause it's like, hip and irreverent, um, and beautiful and like, uh, I mean, U.S. competitions, usually get kind of cutthroat. 

CP: Yeah. 

SB: But this is not that, this is not that.. They like translated that whole Great British Baking Show ethos very well. And I just enjoy it. And also like, sometimes I watched shows and I’m like “Meh, I could do that.” I couldn't do that. The hubris on me is ridiculous. I could not do that. But with these I'm like, I could solidly not do that. Like there's no way I could do anything that they're doing. And I appreciate that even more. So.

CP: That's so fun.

SB: That's it? That's it for me. I think. 

CP: I guess the only other thing happened like, noteworthy in my world is that I got out of town for the day. I went to Wisconsin to see my family and I actually--

SB: —Wisconsin for the day!

CP: For the day, well, yeah, I stayed one night. 

SB: Wow, I love it.

CP: Um, and I have actually, it was for a family funeral. Um, but I, and I was really just there to support family. It was an old, uh, kind of grumpy uncle passed away. Uh, but we all were, you know, it's like one of those folks who, um, yeah, it's just like a little bit grumpy and also just like incredibly endearing. Um, so it was sad to see him pass away, but, um, it was also something a little expected. So for me personally, I, it wasn't, um, I don't know, I felt like emotionally quite fine about it.

And so it was—and this is going to be weird to say—but it was like a really lovely excuse to see a lot of family that I hadn't seen in a very long time. Um, especially, you know, considering the pandemic. And it was also nerve-wracking. I said at the top that I've been around more people in the last month than I have like, in the last two years it feels like, um, and that's true. When I’m, you know, um, saying that I was talking about the shop, but also like I was in a room with like 60 people and only five of us had masks on. Uh, and that was not my preference to be around that many folks, but it felt like a calculated decision that I felt mostly good about.

Um, it was just such a delight to see so many family members and then also to spend the day with my dad, that was really fun. Um, it was like, uh, we kind of joked that it was like a combination, like my birthday, his father's day, snd then, you know, um, the funeral ceremony kind of all in one day for us, and so it was like all of these different, you know, compartments of like what we were trying to do throughout the day, but it was really nice, so.

And then I—you know, I love to drive. Um, and when I left on Thursday morning, it was just like early and the sun was out and I had my music loud in my car and it was just like the best start to the drive home. Um, so it was nice to get out of town for a minute. 

SB: Yeah. I mean, that is so accurate about trying to capture so many missed opportunities with people when you see them. 

CP: Yeah. 

SB: Um, especially family, I just, like, there are a couple people in my family that I've seen multiple weekends in a row, which like before we'd see each other maybe twice a year, like on holidays, it's like, wow, how is this happening? This is great. I love it. I love to see you this much. And like, clearly we missed each other enough to make it happen this many times to make up for all those other times we missed. 

CP: Yeah. And it just, it felt like I really, I don't know. It was, I had just like a really great time seeing people. And I guess to your point, like I kind of, I think it was the part of the reason why I felt so great is just because it had been so long overdue.

SB: Yeah. Yeah. I think funerals in my experience are always bittersweet because you do get to see family that you don't see for a long amount of time. Um, and also I gotta ask. Did you have like a Lutheran meal afterwards? Were there buttered rolls?

CP: There was a light spread.

SB: And bars?

CP: Yes. Okay. So, um, wow. You've been to a funeral in, in these parts before, haven’t you?.

SB: Yes, yes ma'am. 

CP: There was turkey sandwiches on a roll. There was potato salad. And there were bars. So basically. Yeah. Yep. So the classics, um, yeah, and then actually it was really like, after we did, we had like a little dinner there, we went over it to my stepbrothers family's house and they like, made us like a big meal. I was just like, so I don't know. I jammed in interactions with so many family members. It was, yeah, it was great. 

SB: Good for you, dude. Good for you. 

CP: Okay. I think we got to get into some, some fat content here. I mean, we say this all the time: one could argue that everything we say is fat content as we are fat. Um, but I know we have a couple of things that we want to talk a little bit more about in this.

SB:Yeah. Let's dive into it. 

CP: So I think one of the things that you wanted to talk about was the video that Maun sent us. Not our mom, but a friend. On Matter of Fat, mom is spelled M-A-U-N. Yeah. 

SB: Our friend, Maun, um, aka Emily Allen. Um, she's, I hope she listens to this. 

CP: I'm sure she will.

SB: Yeah. She sends me a Samantha Bee video, which—we love Samantha Bee on the show. 

CP: Samantha Bee’s good, yes.

SB: Yeah. And she just came really hard for the diet industry. And I think there's something quite powerful whenever you watch like, The Daily Show or John Oliver or Samantha Bee; when you splice these bigger social patterns together, back-to-back, you just see how truly ridiculous they are, how it's just parroting the same thing and saying nothing at the same time.

Um, and so the topic du jour uh, was the quarantine 15 and how ridiculous a concept that is. I mean, it's not like it's new, um, based on what we're talking about on the podcast, but it just feels very, uh, vindicating to see Samantha Bee talk about how ridiculous, one, talking about how something like the quarantine 15 is and how it's just being used by every news talk show, et cetera, to just put it diet industry information, um, or diet expectations, especially when we're still in the midst of a pandemic, and for having people feel like, “Oh, now it's over. And now I have to lose all this weight,” when so many people's bodies change. Whether, because of, um, like more sedentary lifestyle staying at home, or like actual changes to their body due to COVID or other things that have transpired over the last year, two years.

Yeah, I just, uh, I loved seeing it. Back-to-back, she's very, uh, sharp, very funny. And it's just, I don't know why we still keep treating weight gain like a moral failure. And it's easy for me to say that, ‘cause we've been talking about it for so long. A lot of people don't do that, but like even the advice like they spliced together advice from Dr. Phil or Dr. Oz and, “You know, I love, 4:00 PM, just having a big glass of water and a bowl of carrots!” So it's like, what is your life like that at 4pm you can just like, have a horse moment, uh, just like a feed bag of carrots? I don't know.

Or like Dr. Phil saying broccoli's hard to eat, but a bean and cheese burrito goes down like a woodchipper. What are you eating, sir? How are you eating? I don't know. And not to say that, like I also like, woodchipper after we got to do that filming with Alec has a very distinct image in my mind because we talked about the movie Fargo. Um, so yeah, woodchipper is just a very distinct image in the mind. So I can't really put a bean and cheese burrito with that, but I would say, please watch the videos they're on YouTube.

CP: We'll link 'em.

SB: And, yeah we’ll link em. It's just really good. It's really good to acknowledge that like, yeah, your body has changed most likely, and you're still alive. And hey, that's great! So why listen to these folks?

Oh, the one other thing too, is she talked about how quarantine 15 was coined from freshmen 15, and freshmen 15 isn't actually a real thing. Like there's no data out there to prove that a large majority of like, I would say children, people who attend college or their first year, um, undergraduate college, um, students gained 15 pounds. And so that fallacy has now contributed to this kind of big social pattern, which is just highly disappointing. So that's, okay. I'll, I'll stop talking about that.

CP: No, that's all good stuff. And I thought, especially the like, interrogating, well, like, okay, we're comparing this to freshmen 15, but that's, is that really even a thing? I thought that was really interesting. Um, I know we both love that it needs vids, um, Lindo Bacon is referenced, their work is referenced, I think we always feel good when Lindo weighs in. Um, and actually, so I know Maum shared the videos with you and you shared them with me, but then I also saw them shared in the local Twin Cities Fat Community Page.

And another video, like just under, I was like, “Oh, look at all this fat content I'm getting.” Um, there was another little quick video about Cass Elliot that I watched quickly and also Lindo Bacon was referenced there. 

SB: Nice!

CP: And so, I just like the more we see this, like good, good, you know, the good word being shared from Lindo and folks, you know, what kind of good word, I mean, though.

SB: The HAES word, Health At Every Size, HAES research and science, yeah. 

CP: And just like helping to distance, um, health from weight, right? Um, but anytime Lindo is around that makes me feel good. Um, but yeah, Samantha Bee is great, great vids. We will, um, we'll link them and I'll also share, I could link that Cass Elliot one too cause that was really interesting to me. 

SB: Yeah. That sounds like a great idea.

CP: Okay. Kind of related to what we're talking about, something that you and I have been chatting about is, um, just like, bodies changing, needing new clothes. And I think we both want to go on record as saying, “Hey people, if your body has changed, you can get clothes that fit your current body. And that is okay.” And we would just like love and encourage you to do that!

SB: And I know, so I was talking to a friend of mine who's, his body has changed quite a bit and he feels like a type of way about it. And it's like, “Yeah, that's normal to feel that way. And it's like, also, like you should have clothes that you really like.”

He's like, “Yeah. But I invested a lot of money into those old clothes.” And so I think there are a lot of reasons why, you know, trying things on or looking to find other clothes are difficult. Like we talk about it regularly, like cost, accessibility, um, the emotions that are tied to taking in that action.

Um, so I'm not saying like, go out and buy a new capsule collection, but like, find something that you enjoy, that you can wear,hat can make you feel comfortable on a regular basis. Even if it's not like a whole ensemble, just because you deserve it, you deserve to feel comfortable and happy and supported on a regular basis.

CP: And it can even be as easy as like, looking through your current closet right now, and just like setting the things aside that are not working right now. And having the things that do fit that you do feel comfortable, that you do feel confident in closer to where you're going to be able to see them every day. I think that's just such a big thing.

You know, a lot of folks have been coming through the shop and commenting on how their bodies have been changing. And I really like applaud, I don't know. I just, it feels like people are from what I've observed from folks kind of chatting about this, um, at work it feels like everyone's heads are on so straight. And I just so appreciate it. Like, um, really being very matter of fact about bodies changing and just being like, “Yep, this is the situation. And so like, I'm here to find clothes that work for me, or I'm just like getting used to what this like, new normal for me is like”, um. I just, I think a lot of people's bodies have changed and so, like you said, like it's, you know, to feel some type of way about it, I think is normal and natural. Um, and also to just like, give yourself grace and be open to feeling a little more at home and however your body is showing up. 

SB: Yeah. I guess, I mean, that is just kind of something that I want to carry with me in general and I’ve working on for a while, but I think certainly being confronted with myself and my own thoughts in my house for so many months on end has also expedited that desire. And so I'm wondering, like, what are other things that we are going to keep doing for ourselves, or want to take with ourselves based on our time, you know, in the house, spent the house during the pandemic? I guess what, uh, what do you want to carry with you, Cat? 

CP: Well, something that I've been thinking about a lot more because of like, my work schedule changing is just like the desire for rest. Like, I, I, I was really struck at the beginning of all of this—so like, um, maybe like, it felt like March, April, May, we were pretty like, you know, not doing, not working a lot—for me, I wasn't working a lot. I was home more. And then in like June, July, when I started to try to get back to the shop of it, I'm talking last year. I just would get so tired so quick and I'd be like, okay, I can do like three things today. That is my max. Um, and while I think my stamina and endurance has gotten better since then, I'm really trying to recognize that like, rest is just an essential part of my, my schedule and my life. Um, and so that's what I'm being really thoughtful about.

Like, if I have two really like, demanding 12 hour days, like, oh, I'm going to need to like, let myself sleep in and rest quite a bit the next day in order to just like, be able to keep on functioning. Um, and I think I still feel a little funny about it. Like I wish I could just be like, operating at peak efficiency all the time. Um, but I, I cannot. And so I just need to be able to build rest time into my schedule and I've been doing pretty good with that so far. So that's something I really, really want to keep going with me. 

SB: That is a particular thing that I have been focusing on too. Just because something I've historically done is like, when resting it's been a part of like, procrastination maybe, or if I'm just not feeling good and I rest in the whole time, I'll think like, “Uh, are you not feeling good?”, like “What else could you be doing right now?”, Or like, ”What are you not doing that you should be doing?”. And it's just a cycle that ruins, the whole point of—

CP: —It’s not restorative!

SB: It's not restorative. And so I think I've been really trying to be like, “Hey, maybe you do just need an afternoon where you don't do anything. And like, you're okay with not doing anything. And you don't think about how it's a beautiful day. So you should be outside.” It's like “Nah, babe, like, we're just gonna hang out. We're just going to watch this episode of Loki”, another show I didn't talk about all, but I have been staying up on it. And have enjoyed watching immensely, or “I'm just going to do some embroidery or I'm going to water my plants, or I'm just going to be sitting here and feel like, kind of miserable because that's how I feel right now. And that's how my body feels.”

And I think, uh, yeah, tuning into that is going to be something that I'm going to actively work on. And then also just like allow for. That, that's the thing I'm going to carry with me. Yeah. We'll see. I can see how long I can do that.

CP: I think that's good. 

SB: This is veered away from fat stuff. Again, arguably, we are fat. I do have something that is grinding my gears when it comes to fat stuff. 

CP: What is it? 

SB: It’s just, I think this is going around social media the other day. Some weird folks in the UK, and New Zealand say we have this new weight loss device, which is a magnetic thing that gets put on your teeth to keep your jaw closed. so you can only take in liquids. And it's just like, are we still doing this? Is this still what we think is gonna help? Ridiculous.

CP: It’s a simpler version of wiring your jaw shut, right. Like a simpler version of that. Yikes!

SB: Ridiculous magnetic, just in case something happens, you know, we need to help you open your mouth. I cannot, I cannot! This is medieval and it's also not helpful for anyone. I just, also, the U.K. just does some really weird, messed up stuff. They have been, like take, in 2021, they took away a 16- and 13-year-old from their family due to lack of weight loss in the children over a period of time. And, and it's, and like in the articles that I read about it, it's not that these children were being neglected. In fact, they had really caring, attentive parents who are fat as well. Um, but they were still taken away because the judges decided that was not appropriate for these children to be overweight.

And I just feel like it's barbaric and weight being used to break up family systems is just, I don't know, another, I mean, we want to talk about oppressive systemic injustices, I think that's what it is too. I can't understand why that would be an important or a good idea if children are being well cared for in every other sense of the word, and they're just not losing weight, like why you would break up a family. That seems heartless to me.

CP: And actually that kind of, um, theme reminds me of some stuff that we discussed in our most recent Podluck. We listened to a She's All Fat episode about fat liberation and, um, I think fat pregnancy or fat fertility, reproductive, reproductive justice, and the conversation veered into like a lot of parenting stuff, and so that makes me think of it.

It's just like, super alarming, super troublesome. Um, and yeah, I mean, we don't need to go on and on about this gross jaw contraption thing, um, I think it is very clear how it is very messed up, but I will say one good thing that came of this, is that looking at all of the tweets. That were, you know, laying out why this is not okay. Someone tweeted a picture or like a GIF from this, a movie that I forgot I loved when I was young called Camp—anyone, anyone? And, um, the there's this like, it's like supposed to be, you know, like, um, played for laughs in like an ironic way of like, a pointing out this is an issue way, but there's this girl who goes, it's a—the camp is like a performing arts camp. And there's this girl who goes to camp, like her parents were dropping her off at the bus to go. And the, her friend's learn that her jaw has been wired shut, and our parents are like, “She wanted to come to this camp, but we wanted her to go to a weight loss camp. So we're doing this instead.” And it's like, it's a performing arts camp. This person can not talk or sing you know? It was just like very—then towards the end of the movie, something else happens—but, um, I just was reminded of this show that I loved so much when I was in high school. And so not happy for this jaw contraption, but thank you to the person who tweeted that moment from that show. That is, that is all I have to say on the matter. 

SB: Is this the, is this the Disney movie with the Jonas Brothers? What are we talking about?

CP: I don’t believe so, um.

SB: You would know, I feel like you would know, if the Jonas Brothers were in it or not.

CP: I think it was years before the Jonas Brothers. I think this came out in like 2003?

SB: Okay. 

CP: Yeah. Hmm. It's uh, I don't know if I'd like it anymore, but, um, seeing that little gif makes me think, “Hmm. Maybe I need to look this up again.” Me and my high school bestie, Chrissy Norgaard, we watched the shit out of that movie. 

SB: I just, yeah. I don't understand the people who want to wire people's mouths shut. I just, I cannot get over it.

CP: They just don't understand, like, what's actually happening here, you know? It's like, it's a, short-sighted understanding of like, what health actually is. And, um, it's just, I mean, could someone lose weight? Yeah, of course. Will that be at all sustained? Very unlikely. And will it cause damage to their bodies? Assuredly. So it's just like, this is, I don't understand what they're trying to do, but it doesn't seem like it's gonna accomplish a whole lot. 

SB: It's like how many fat folks who are knowledgeable about this were actually asked, or in the design process of this.

CP: Hey, what you just said is a perfect segue into another fat thing that I wanted to mention. 

SB: What? A perfect segue, you say?

CP: You’re queen of the segue. Okay. So we both sleep on Big Fig Mattresses and we have gone on record as really enjoying them. And I—

SB: —There’s a lot of on record in this episode.

CP: I know I realized I said it again. 

SB: It's true. It's true.

CP: It's because of that, we just watched that Dave episode where he talks about that! And maybe that's why it's on my mind. Anyway, we both have Big Fig beds.

And Saraya, I won't talk for you, but I, um, like generally have really, really good feelings about Big Fig as a company. They're the only, or I think maybe there's others now, but they were the first company to really explicitly prioritize folks with bigger bodies for their beds, and like all of their advertising and all of their, you know, copy on their website, it's all just like speaking to people who are fat. And sometimes they use the word fat, and often they say like a bigger figure, but it's clear who they're talking to. And I really appreciate my body size being prioritized in this, you know, in creating a mattress.

And they have, I think, um, I imagine it had someone different, like new working social media, cause it's gotten quite a bit better in the last like year or so. And recently—I didn't catch the, this was like on Wednesday when I was doing all the fam time, so I wasn't on my phone—but I caught on Thursday, an apology they issued, um, where they had posted, I didn't see the original post, but there was like a blog post, I think, corresponding icon or something image rather on their Instagram feed that talks about how just like talking about weight gain and infertility being linked to oversleeping. Um, I think in a way that was probably pretty irresponsibly stated.

And so it was like a, an apology kind of retracting that. And I mean, I thought the apology was fine. Um, but you know, we want to, we want to see actions, not words. Um, but some of the comments under the apology I thought were really poignant, and the ones that I thought were most, um, I dunno, the ones that, that I really took most note of were asking just what you asked moments ago, which is “Where are the fat people in all of this? Are, there are fat people working for you? Are there fat people on your content creation team? Are there fat people who are part of these processes?”

Because assuredly, some of those people would understand that like the things that you're saying maybe are not wise to say. And additionally, you are, your market is like, plus size folks. So like, be thoughtful about what you're saying.

Like, not only like the, you know, there's the right thing to say, but there's also the thing, you want to be thinking about who you're messaging is going to. Um, and it just seems really clear that there aren't a lot or enough fat people behind the scenes, um, to, to be representative. Um, so yeah, I think that that's just like a very interesting, um, and something that felt like, I don't know, fat news, if you will?

SB: Yeah, it is. It's just disappointing. I think we've seen that happen with other like clothing lines for plus size folks too, where it's like, the people in charge are just in, so, um, unassociated with the reality of fat folks in their lives. 

CP: This is kinda related. Um, I kind of forgot about this until just now. A while ago, months ago, they posted a graphic where they had—I actually messaged them about this. They posted a graphic, um, something related to sleep and they talked about dreaming and they had an image of a dream catcher. And I was like, oh, oh, yikes. I wouldn't do that.

And so I messaged them was like, “Hey Big Fig, just like, wanted to make you aware that this like is probably not appropriate to have as a graphic for this, like what you're trying to say here, um, wanted to make sure you were aware of this.” And then I maybe sent an article or something. I love to do that to be like, “Excuse me. Here’s a corresponding article for you.” Um, and then they responded to like, “Oh, thanks for bringing this to our attention.” And they took it down, um, and changed, and changed it.

I think they put the same thing out with like, a different image rather than the dream catcher, which I thought was the way to go. Um, so I think that they are invested in like, you know, listening and learning, whatever that is, but also wouldn't it be nice if these like, mistakes weren’t made in the first place?

SB: Let's tell that to the New York Times, shall we? I cannot with that article that came out, I know it's a little bit dated at this point, but just, I mean, it's very much related to the Samantha Bee piece that we were talking about. About how a lot of folks coming, well, who feel like they're exiting the pandemic um, were told in this article that basically like, if you have fat friends, if you have depressed friends, like be careful, that could be contagious to you.

That's not verbatim what they wrote, but that's basically what they said is like, cut these people out of your life because you don't want to be like them. And it’s just like, excuse me, New York Times, what? Who allowed that to get written and spread so widely? And I, I gotta asume that either A) they just truly have no concept of this or B) they just want to be talked about, because I think that's, what's so much needs to happen with, um, a lot of journalism these days.

CP: That’s a good point. Yeah. 

SB: I don't know. That was a wild article. 

CP: I just, I mean, I think that most fat people, want more fat friends? Um, not because like, because we are able to understand what we go through in a way that is different than our friends who aren't fat. Um, and so to try to like, demonize that relationship, like vilify that feels just so gross to me. And so clear that, like you just said, they don't know what they're talking about. 

SB: I guess I, yes, like more fat friends, sure, and then also just more friends who understand why that article was so harmfu. Because it's also just like, really bad for like, mental health and disability and other stuff too. And it's just like, what the hell are you doing New York Times? Cause I know there are a lot of different branches. The New York Times, and I'm not referencing the food. I'm not referencing the puzzles and the crossword puzzling I’ve gotten into lately, I'm referencing more of like, The Daily, which you really love.

CP: Unfortunately I do. 

SB: Which you talk about on a regular basis. I just, I feel even more skeptical of things that are coming out from New York Times. Also, Star Tribune. Also like everything at this point, um, cause things are popping off in the Twin Cities and the way that it gets reported is just quite intriguing. Um, and like, not a fun way, but yeah, I just had to say like, I'm a skeptic. That's all it is. That's how we wrap up the show with me just saying, I don't know about that.

CP: I appreciate what you said about this. It's like, is it willful ignorance or is it like, you know, trying to actually like poke and want to be talked about? Like, purposely choosing certain things to say in order to be more on people's minds.

SB: Yeah, I just don't want it to, like, I don't want to know the people who agree with it, I guess. I don't know. I just don't want to be associated with those folks. 

CP: Yeah. Yeah. Same. And I just, I wish, I don't know, Michael Barbaro, who I like so much from The Daily, I wish that he would have some things to say about this that I would agree with, but I fear that I would not agree. And so, yeah, that is.

SB: I got to bring it back to television because that's what we do. There's a show on—it's Peacock. I think we talked. Did we talk about Girls 5eva? 

CP: Well, maybe. I mean, I have not watched it. I want to, but I haven't. Have you watched? 

SB: I did. I watched all of it. There is this one, just like joke. It's just so ridiculous. But there's this joke, this character is worried that her son, she lives in New York, is going to grow up to be a New York lonely boy where he's like the only child of like parents in New York. And so he's friends with the doorman and like would rather get sushi, and he wears a fedora. She was like really worried, but at one point she was like, “Let's just have a dance party” with this young child. He's probably six or seven. And she's like, “Let's just let loose and have a dance party in our living room.” And he goes over, he like, puts on some music and it turns out it's The Daily, and he’s like dancing to The Daily. It was just the greatest thing. I was like a weird little joke that was built up into this episode, Girls 5eva.

CP: Can I, dare I, I know this is getting long, but may I connect this in a very tangential way to something else that we know and love and giggled about a lot. 

SB: Yeah. 

CP: Remember that scene in BookSmart? Where he goes, and he’s in the car, and he goes to put the music on and it’s just Brené Brown audiobook?

SB: No, it’s not Brené Brown. It's uh, Lean In by Sheryl Sandberg. That’s way worse. The girls need a ride desperately and they call up this dude he's got the weirdest car and they hop in and just blaring out the speakers is the introduction to Lean In. 

CP: It was just it, oh my God. It got me. It was, yeah. So that's the, that Girls 5eva sounds hilarious and also akin to this other very laughable moment. Wow. Um, we just took y’all on a journey, so thanks for keeping up and apologies if you didn't. 

SB: Hope you stuck around! If you didn't couldn't blame you, but you did. 

CP: We're not judging. Okay. Is it about that time?

[THEME MUSIC FADES IN AND OUT]

SB: To answer Cat's question, it is about that time folks. We have come to the end of this episode. 

CP: We gotta wrap this up how we always do. So let me plug our website: MatterOfFatPod.com, where you will find show notes and transcripts and info about Matter of Fat, access to older episodes and info about upcoming Podlucks.

SB: And we've been sharing the season about the wonderful Fat Cash. It's a way you can show us some love and help fund the pod, and you can find us on Venmo @MatterOfFatPod. And of course we have all the details about this on our website and, uh, this episode’s Fat Cash shout out, goes to Christina! Thank you for sending some Fat Cash our way. It is much appreciated.

CP: Yes. Thanks Christina. And as always y'all, please subscribe, rate, and review the podcast wherever you catch Matter of Fat. We love to shout you out in our next outro if you're able to share on Apple podcasts, and always share and tag us on social media. We love to reshare your tags on our Instagram stories. 

SB: Until next time when we're back with another episode of—

CP +SB: —Matter of Fat.